02/09/24 02/09/24 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] nermeen: from new york, this is democracy now! >> the idea we should think about democracy, think about the right of the people to elect candidates of their choice. >> the reason we're here is president trump try to disenfranchise millions of americans who voted against and

the constitution doesn't require he be given another chance. nermeen: can donald trump be barred from running for president for engaging in an insurrection? that's the case before the supreme court. we'll speak with the nation's justice correspondent elie mystal. then, senior biden administration officials travel to michigan to meet with arab american and muslim leaders about the war in gaza. >> senior officials traveled to michigan and they are traveling today to hear directly from the community, community leaders on a range of issues that are important to them, obviously, not just them but their families, including the conflict that we are currently saying in israel and gaza. nermeen: we'll speak with michigan's highest-ranking arab or muslim leader, representative abraham aiyash, who was at the meeting. and we'll speak with palestinian american community organizer layla elabed who is spearheading a campaign urging people to vote for "uncommitted" in michigan's upcoming primary. she's the sister of michigan congressmember rashida tlaib,

the only palestinian-american member of congress. then we go to pakistan where early election results show a tight race in a vote marred by accusations of vote rigging. we'll get the latest. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm nermeen shaikh. in southern gaza, israeli snipers gunned down at least 21 people in khan younis as they tried to reach nasser hospital. al jazeera reports israeli soldiers are "shooting at every moving object" near the hospital. in northern gaza, the al-quds hospital has been under fire from israeli tanks. unicef has warned an escalation of israel's attacks in rafah will cause hunger and disease to skyrocket. over half of gaza's population of 2.3 million have taken refuge in rafah after israel claimed it

was a "safe zone." there are more than 600,000 children in the area. gaza is already experiencing the worst levels of child malnutrition in the world. this comes as a u.n. committee said it will review israel's abuses of children's rights. >> the rights of children living under the state of israel's effective control are being gravely violated at a level that has rarely been seen in recent history. nermeen: in the jabalia refugee camp, gazans dug through rubble in a desperate search to find any source of water. >> i don't know what to tell you. it is a hopeless situation. instead of getting rest, we did under the rubble. this water line, we dug it from under the rubble. we kept digging until we found water. it is the stone age. 30, 40, 50,000 years ago. we filter it and use it for

cooking. we are asking all arab countries and everyone to figure out a solution because this is not the solution. we die every day, every minute, every second. make of the united arab emirates is hosting a meeting of arab nations in a bid to prevent an escalation of a larger regional conflict. the family of two palestinian american brothers say the pair, their canadian father, and three other relatives have been detained after an israeli raid on their home in gaza. the brothers, borak and hashem alagha, are aged 18 and 20. national security spokesperson john kirby says the u.s. will talk to israel about the detention of the brothers, as well as samaher esmail, a palestinian-american woman from louisiana who was forcibly taken by israeli soldiers in the occupied west bank earlier this week. meanwhile, in the united states, texas police say the stabbing of 23-year-old palestinian american

zacharia doar in austin last sunday was a hate crime. the senate voted to advance a $95 billion military funding package for ukraine, israel, and taiwan. the measure was stripped of border provisions after republicans rejected an earlier bill that included an immigration crackdown that they themselves had demanded. senators will now consider sending an additional $60 billion to ukraine and $14 billion to israel. in illinois, prosecutors have dropped criminal charges against two northwestern university students who published a mock school newspaper accusing northwestern of being complicit in the genocide of palestinians. the reversal comes after the parent company of the daily northwestern faced condemnation and threats to boycott the paper. in labor news, the afl-cio has joined other unions in calling for a ceasefire in gaza. the afl-cio is the largest federation of labor unions in

the u.s., representing some 12.5 million people. the special counsel investigating president biden's handling of classified documents after his vice presidency has declined to charge biden despite finding the president "willfully retained and disclosed classified materials." in his report, special counsel robert hur said a jury would be sympathetic to biden and would view him as a "well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory." hur made several other references to biden's memory, which he called "significantly limited." biden later responded to questions about hur's comments. pres. biden: my memory is fine. look at what i have done since i have become president. none of you thought i could get the things past i got past. how did that happen? i guess i just forgot what was going on. nermeen: later in the same news conference, biden mistakenly referred to egypt's abdel fattah el-sisi as the president of mexico.

the supreme court appears poised to overturn colorado's ruling which disqualified trump from the primary ballot for engaging in an insurrection. both liberal and conservative justices expressed skepticism over colorado's case. this is justice sonia sotomayor. >> i think the question you have to confront is why a single state should decide who gets to be president at the united states. in other words, this question of whether former president is disqualified for insurrection to be president again is -- just say it, it sounds awfully national to me. whatever means there are to enforce it would suggest they have to be federal, national means. nermeen: the supreme court's decision, expected in the coming weeks, will likely apply to any other state where efforts are under way to remove trump from the ballot, such as maine. in other primary news, trump won the republican primary caucuses

in nevada and the was virgin islands. nevada also held its democratic caucus, which biden won. in more election news, the federal communications commission has banned ai-generated robocalls. in pakistan, early results of thursday's parliamentary election show independent candidates affiliated with jailed former prime minister imran khan in the lead. cellphone and internet services were cut off just as voting began, which opposition candidates denounced as another move by pakistan's military-backed interim government to rig the election. we'll go to pakistan for more later in the broadcast. russia's election commission has barred anti-war putin challenger boris nadezhdin from running in next month's presidential election. authorities claimed around 15% of the signatures he collected for his candidate application were invalid, putting him below the threshold for qualification. although president vladimir putin is widely expected to win the election, nadezhdin has

emerged as the opposition's best shot. he has vowed to challenge his disqualification all the way to russia's supreme court. >> you can take me off the elections, but what will they do with the millions waiting for changes who disagree with the course the country is going? that is the problem. these people are not going anywhere. i will continue working further. we will be moving candidates for election, organizing a widespread movement. nermeen: brazil's federal police has confiscated former president jair bolsonaro's passport as he faces accusations of plotting a military coup to overturn his election loss to luiz inacio lula da silva in 2022. federal agents carried out 33 searches and four arrests tied to the case thursday. bolsonaro and his allies are accused of spreading disinformation about voter fraud, recruiting military officials to support a coup, and encouraging far-right protesters to storm government buildings to

prevent lula from taking office. in haiti, police killed five environmental protection agents wednesday amid escalating protests demanding the resignation of prime minister ariel henry and an end to gang violence. haitian police claimed the environmental agents opened fire first. clashes were also reported in other areas of port-au-prince, with police forces firing tear gas and live bullets at protesters. >> we have no set course. we're on the streets until we succeed in uprooting the gangs and head of state. nermeen: prime minister henry is the de facto ruler following the assassination of haitian president jovenel moïse in 2021. according to a 2022 agreement, henry was supposed to hold elections and hand over power to the winners this week but the elections were not held as planned.

the u.n. is appealing for over $4 billion in aid for sudan, which is facing some of the world's worst internal displacement and hunger crises after months of fighting between the sudanese army and the paramilitary rapid support forces. this is u.n. aid chief martin griffiths. >> there is a certain kind of obscenity about the humanitarian world which is the competition of suffering, a competition. i have more suffering than you so i need more money. i don't think there's anywhere quite so tragic in the world today as sudan. nermeen: the world food programme warned last week sudanese people are dying of starvation as the conflict has cut off many people from accessing aid. this comes as 13 sudanese asylum seekers died after their boat capsized off tunisia's coast wednesday. 27 other passengers were missing

as of thursday. the international organization for migration found more than 3000 people drowned in the mediterranean sea while attempting to cross to europe in 2023. and in related news, a greek court has acquitted 16 humanitarian workers who helped rescue refugees in the mediterranean in 2015 and 2016. they had been accused of espionage and other charges in what has been condemned as the criminalization of humanitarian work. but the aid workers are not in the clear yet as they still face a separate felony trial with charges including facilitating illegal immigration and money laundering. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm nermeen shaikh joined by amy goodman. hi, amy. amy: hi, nermeen. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers around the country and around the world. nermeen: senior biden administration officials

traveled to michigan on thursday to meet with arab american and muslim leaders amid growing opposition to biden's candidacy over his support for israel's assault on gaza. michigan, which is an important swing state, is also home to the largest percentage of arab americans in the united states. biden's campaign manager traveled to detroit last month, but a number of arab american leaders and elected officials declined to meet with her over the war in gaza. last week, biden traveled to michigan himself to meet with members of the united auto workers union who endorsed him, but he did not meet with any arab-american leaders. white house press secretary karine jean-pierre responded to a question about the meetings in michigan at a news conference yesterday. >> senior officials traveled to michigan and they are traveling today to hear directly from the community, directly from community leaders on a range of issues that are important to them.

not just them, but their families, including the conflict that we are currently saying in israel and gaza. it is a private meeting. we want to give them the space to have a meeting that has candor, where we can hear directly from them. don't want to get too far into what is going to be discussed, but we want to hear directly from them, hear their concerns. we believe this important for these leaders to be able to speak directly to officials in the white house. nermeen: among the people who met with biden administration officials yesterday was michigan house floor leader abraham aiyash. he's the second-ranking democrat , the highest-ranking arab or muslim leader. representative aiyash is among over 30 elected officials in michigan who have signed on to a listen to michigan campaign and pledged to vote "uncommitted" in the state's primary on february 27. representative aiyash joins us

now from detroit. welcome to democracy now! if you can tell us who was present in this meeting and what were your demands to them? >> thank you for having me. there are several meetings throughout the day. we had folks from the national security council, some of the power was present and other folks from the biden administration, state department. the conversations were frank. i know many of us did not spare any words in terms of discussing what we need and the conditions we land out are simple. we are expecting a permanent cease fire. we want to see restrictions and conditions on the military aid needing to be received right now without restrictions or parameters. we want to see a serious commitment of humanitarian aid to be sent to gaza as well as reinstating funding for unripe

-- unrwa. now is not the time for posturing. i would be remiss not to mention this meeting happened 19 days before the primaries here in michigan. amy: let's talk about that, state representative aiyash. extremely significant as the number two person in the house in michigan. and as nermeen said, the highest-ranking arab american and muslim leader in michigan. this meeting where -- original meeting where the campaign manager for president biden, you chose not to meet with him. he has sent out a whole group, including cement the powers, former u.s. -- cement the power -- and on samantha power. this has shaken the white house. the level of protest when he was

getting the endorsement of the uaw. uaw workers holding up signs calling for a ceasefire. talk about why you decided to have this meeting and not boycott the invite. and also what they had to say to you about where president biden stands on the ceasefire. >> there was no direct commitment on the ceasefire. what i will say is when they invited us to meet with the campaign manager, we respected it because this is not the time to engage in electoral politics, particularly when you see 30,000 innocent folks that have been murdered at the hands of weaponry that are u.s. taxpayer money has unfortunately funded. the conversation was clear that we need to have a serious framework for us to say the united states should lead in moral clarity to fight for peace and that we are not going to

engage about this and he says through electoral politics. palestinian life should not be measured in poll numbers but on the basis of their humanity. that is what we reiterated. anytime there is an opportunity to engage on policy, we are going to try to do that. that is what yesterday's attempt was. the ball is in the president's court and the white house's court to see what they will do after hearing our concern. they could no longer say, "we did not know." we had frank discussions with them. they know where we stand. now the question is, are they going to heed the call of their constituents and do something that a majority of americans and democrats support and -- in demanding for ceasefire and an end to violence? amy: michigan is a key swing state and arab american population is key to a vote for president biden.

you're part of a larger effort to vote "uncommitted" in the february primary in michigan. can you explain why you made that decision? and if you address this yesterday with biden administration officials? >> we make clear there would be no engagement on electoral politics at this moment and we were not going to attain that. as far as february 27 for the michigan presidential primary, we will remain uncommitted. the reason why is because we need to let the white house know that they have an opportunity in this moment to earn the boats. as an elected official, when i run for office, i don't say the other guy is worse than me. i give them a message and a platform for why i am running. we expect the white house and president biden to do the same. the expectation is we are letting him know now that we are uncommitted to his presidency

until we see some changes in the policies that have affected both americans here and so many abroad as well as their families in the gaza strip. nermeen: i like to bring in layla elabed, a palestinian american community organizer from dearborn, michigan, and a leader of the listen to michigan campaign which is urging constituents to cast a vote for "uncommitted" on michigan's february 27 primary election in protest of president biden's ongoing support for israel's war on gaza. elabed is also the younger sister of congressmember rashida tlaib, the only palestinian-american member of congress. layla elabed, welcome to democracy now! if you could begin by explaining why you decided to lead this campaign? >> personally, as a palestinian american and somebody from the age of 12 saw the power of electoral politics within our

arab american and muslim community, i knew that i wanted to be part of something that could possibly affect change. an uncommitted campaign is part of a larger movement, antiwar movement across the country. we are focused on ending a war and stopping the military funding that supports genocide. nermeen: i would like to turn to comments that president biden made while speaking at the white house last night. after he addressed the special counsel's report on his handling of classified information, biden responded to a question on israel's assault on gaza. pres. biden: i am of the view that the conduct of the response in gaza, in the gaza strip has been over the top.

nermeen: layla elabed, if you could respond to what president biden said and what you hope will come out of this campaign? >> that was his comment -- his comments were still not a call for a ceasefire or for the reevaluation and military aid to israel that is committing genocide and ethnic cleansing of palestinians in gaza. until that happens, we cannot trust biden and we cannot commit our votes to him. amy: let's put the question to state representative abraham aiyash. if you can respond to what the biden administration is now saying -- president biden, tony blinken just back from the mideast trip are not calling for ceasefire but blinken is talking about a pause. but they are warning netanyahu about a ground assault on rafah.

can you talk about the significance of this? the area you come from in michigan and layla coming from dearborn, one of the largest arab american communities in the united states. you represent, state representative aiyash, so many people who have family in gaza right now. what that kind of ground assault would mean? >> it is -- it would be devastating for the people, but i think more importantly, i think the broader conversation is we need to make sure that if this happens that the america people are very aware of what is going to be them -- the message in november. we're going to keep having that conversation. but at this age, it is clear to them that we have made our mission and our message that where we stand on this is very clear.

we are demanding -- nermeen: representative abraham aiyash, thank you so much for joining us. and layla elabed, palestinian american organizer from dearborn, michigan. when we come back, can donald trump be barred from running for president for engaging in an insurrection? that is the case before the supreme court. we will speak with elie mystal. ♪ [music break]

nermeen: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm nermeen shaikh joined by amy goodman. the u.s. supreme court heard oral arguments in a historic case thursday to determine if republican presidential front-runner donald trump is eligible to stay on the ballot for the 2024 election. the justices are reviewing a decision by colorado's high

court that found section 3 of the 14th amendment of the u.s. constitution makes trump ineligible to run for office because he engaged in an insurrection on january 6, 2021. a ruling could come within weeks. before a packed courtroom, both liberal and conservative justices expressed skepticism over colorado's case. this is liberal justice sonia sotomayor. >> i think the question you have to confront is why a single state should decide who gets to be president of the united states. in other words, this question of whether former president is disqualified for insurrection to be president again, just say it, it sounds awfully national to me. so whatever means there are to enforce it would suggest have to be federal, national means. nermeen: meanwhile, liberal justice ketanji brown jackson appeared to agree with trump's lawyer jonathan mitchell's

argument that the 14th amendment's disqualification provision does not apply to all insurrectionists, but only to people who swore to support the constitution as an "officer of the united states," which does not include the president. >> the first argument is we have a list of offices that a person is barred from holding, right? under your theory or under the language. we seem to begins with senator, representative, elector of president and vice president, and all other civil or military offices under the united states. the word president or vice president does not appear specifically in that list. i guess i'm trying to understand, are you giving up that argument? >> not at all. the president and vice president are not specifically listed. but the litigants claimed they

are encompassed with the phrase office under the united states -- >> do you agree the framers would have put such a high and significant important office, smuggled it in that catchall phrase? >> we don't agree at all. that is why we are still making the argument. nermeen: that's trump's lawyer jonathan mitchell, questioned thursday by justice ketanji brown jackson. and this is conservative justice brett kavanaugh challenging colorado's attorney jason murray. >> last question, and trying to figure out what section 3 means to the extent it is vague language, what about the idea we should think about democracy, think about the right of the people to elect candidates of their choice, of letting the people decide? your position has the effect of disenfranchising voters to a significant degree. >> this case illustrates the danger of refusing to apply

section 3 as written because the reason we here is president trump try to disenfranchise 80 million americans who voted against him when the constitution does not require him to given another chance. nermeen: for more on this and other cases trump is facing we are joined by elie mystal, the nation's justice correspondent. his new piece is headlined "the supreme court is not going to save us from donald trump." he's the author "allow me to retort: a black guy's guide to the constitution." welcome back to democracy now! if you could just begin by responding to yesterday's oral arguments. >> it was a disaster. apparently, the constitution does not matter if it makes republicans sad. the idea -- it is so important i think you highlighted the bolsonaro story. look at what brazil is doing when they're former president threaten their government. they took my man's passport away most of that is not what we do here.

we don't defend ourselves, apparently. yesterday, the supreme court argument involved nine justices, three pointer by republican president -- sorry, six appointed by republican president and three appointed by democratic presidents, locking arms and deciding to ignore the constitution, ignore the plain text of section 3 of the 14th amendment which clearly states insurrectionists cannot run for office. they decide to lock hands and more that because it would be too messy for the country to apply the law to donald trump. that is what happened yesterday. it was very disappointing to listen to. amy: it is fascinating when you look at who jason murray is, the lawyer for colorado that is trying to keep trump from the ballot as an insurrectionist. he clerked for elena kagan, liberal justice, and neil

gorsuch, the justice from colorado. >> and both lit him up yesterday. elena kagan was extremely concerned. the first soundbite was elena kagan. she was extremely concerned with the ability of colorado to kind of on its own exclude trump from the ballot. the best way i can explain the liberal decision or why the liberals took the position they did is that i would say you elena kagan, jackson, sonia sotomayor to some extent, they were more concerned with a red state -- republican just lecture or republican governor kicking somebody like joe biden off the presidential ballot that they were willing to stop colorado from kicking trump off the ballot for good-faith reasons. while i get that calculus as a

real politics method, it is a problem when your legal decisions, your legal rulings are based on what you think the bad faith will do that. it is a problem if the lock is reduced to come, my god, what would ron desantis do? that is not a good way to run a country. but that is a way that we saw the liberals want to play it yesterday. the other point that is worth mentioning, you brought up to the lawyer for the colorado side was. let's not forget who the lawyer for the trump side was. let's not forget who jonathan mitchell is. he is the former texas solicitor general who is most famous for inventing taxes's sb8, the bounty hunter law that allows people to pursue abortion providers that effectively overruled roe v. wade before the supreme court overruled roe v.

wade. that is the guy the trump campaign dragged out to make the argument that he should stay on the valid. and that is the guy that apparently all nine justices found a way to agree with yesterday. amy: i also want to ask about the line of questioning of justice contagion brown jackson -- ketanji brown jackson and the whole issue of what it means to be an officer in the 14th amendment. also talk about the history of this case, why colorado going back to the civil war, what it means for an insurrectionist to run for office. >> this is a double-edged sword of justice jackson. she is fantastic, amazingly smart. and she is an originalist, a liberal version of those words. but she is the person who kind of goes toe to toe with neil gorsuch whenever they want to talk about the original public

in of this or that. she is the one who goes right in to the oxford english dictionary to fight gorsuch about the definition of what "is" is. and that is great most of the time. but yesterday, those -- that intellectual consistency led her to what i think is a quite tortured place where she was parsing the word "office" versus "offices" to try to find some way to not include president trump. the problem is it is ridiculous. it is ridiculous as a matter of common sense to think the people who said that you can't be a senator if you raise the rebellion against the government and you can't be a congressperson if you raise the rebellion against the government. president, that is fine. like that is ridiculous argument. but that is what she talked her

self into. i think she talked yourself into that. i think the liberals generally talked themselves into that because they don't like the political reality of what the law says. they don't like the idea of kicking trump off the ballot, what that means is a presidential value around the country. and so they twisted themselves into a pretzel to pretend the law says something that it doesn't. nermeen: i want to ask you but the long-awaited ruling this week on trump's claim to be immune from criminal prosecution which you write about in your piece headlined "the d.c. circuit just shredded trump's immunity claims: the court's decision should put to rest the question of whether a former president is immune to prosecution. the question is whether the supreme court will allow that." lay out how this three-judge panel unanimously rejected trump's argument and what could happen next. >> speaking of stupid arguments, the argument that the president

of the united states once he is no longer in power is free to commit any crime he would like without fear of prosecution, the idea if i president of united states could commit crimes while in office he is somehow immune from ever being prosecuted for those crimes even when he is out of office is ridiculous. nobody reasonable believes that. the d.c. circuit panel, the three-judge panel unanimously ruled trump was wrong on every single level of his argument. it was a total -- what i call a bench slap. they destroyed that argument. it is ridiculous argument. but does that end the issue? no. trump is not trying to win with this ridiculous immunity argument, he is trying to delay with his ridiculous immunity argument. he was due to be put on trial by

judge tonya and jack smith on march 4. then he started making this immunity argument. then the judge ruled the immunity argument was wrong because it is obviously wrong. but now he got to appeal. the appeal took a month for the d.c. circuit to write it. we have moved back the march 4 trial date. what happens next? he will take the d.c. ruling and appeal it the supreme court. when he gets to the supreme court, if the supreme court takes it, he will lose again because the argument is ridiculous. i think even after what i heard yesterday, i do not think there are five justices up there who will say the president is immune -- a former president is immune from prosecution. it is just not true. at the question is whether or not they grant to case at all and whether or not they allow him to continue to delay the

start of his trial while he makes this ridiculous argument. the court does not have to take the case. if they do want to take the case, the supreme court does not have to grant this day. it does not have to stop the judge from moving forward with her trial. but if there are four or five conservatives willing to allow trump to delay, willing to essentially let him half the legal process or try to keep himself out of jail long enough to run for president again, then trump will potentially be able to delay his trial into the summer, through the conventions, maybe even past the next election -- which is his whole game. the idea is going to win on this particular argument is never in the cards for him, and he knows it anyone rational as well. nermeen: this week donald trump renewed his request for the judge in his georgia election interference case to disqualify fulton county district attorney fani willis and dismiss the

indictment, saying her "egregious misconduct demands" it. willis has acknowledged she had a romantic relationship with a prosecutor she hired on the case, nathan wade. you have a piece for the nation headlined "the fani willis scandal is bad -- but it doesn't change her case against trump." explain what you mean. >> i don't think fani willis should have done what she did. what she allegedly did, what she is emitted to. -- admitted to. i don't think she should have done that. but it borders on unethical but has nothing to do with her ability to prosecute this case and the charges that she has brought against the 19 co-conspirators who tried to defraud the people of georgia of their votes. it has nothing -- or personal foibles have nothing to do with the prosecution of that case. let us not forget three people have already pleaded guilty to

the charges she brought stop so we have to understand fani willis as a person who has professional responsibilities and a personal life. her personal life, i think that was a mess. but her professional responsibilities are not implicated by this particular scandal. there are different kinds of ethical, moral quandaries and scandals that potentially would implicate a prosecutor's ability to move forward with a case. this ain't one of them. the idea you can go from this personal issue and over play it the point where now i had to dismiss the whole case is ridiculous -- now you have to dismiss the whole case is ridiculous. it is a bad look. i wish he had not done it. amy: we have not talked to you for a while since the e. jean carroll case, which really is significant. jury voting more than $83 million for trump defaming e.

jean carroll after another civil trial found him guilty of sexually assaulting her. the judge saying it was rape. but when just before the jury found him liable for $83 million, trump walks out of the closing arguments. can you summarize that case for us and where it is headed? will he be paying this $83 million? >> trump is a bit of a baby and threw a tantrum when he had to pay money for running his mouth. let's not forget, he was found liable for defaming her. he was ordered to pay her $5 million. and then he kept defaming her and kept running his mouth about her. that is why he had the second trial and now it is an 83 million dollar payment. i will tell you one thing, he has shut up about her now. he is made a lot of angry

tweets, have not heard her name out of his mouth since the verdict and that is the point. we perhaps finally found the price point that it takes to make donald trump shut up and it is $83 million. hope other judges put $83 million fines on him to keep his mouth shut because, apparently, that is what it takes. will he have to pay it? eventually. i'm not an economist. i don't understand that gdp of trump's world. i don't know if he has the money. i don't know if he's going to lease his maga supporters, social security check so he can pay off his legal fees. i don't know exactly how it is going to work but i do know the point was that he needed to shut up about her and he has. amy: finally, we have not talked usage or your debut on "s&l" or was that kina thompson?

let's take a look. >> you think that meat is understanding election to get you -- >> that is an interesting question. looks interesting. you find it interesting. i find you interesting, ok? you look like another don king. amy: you made it. how are you feeling today? >> i am obviously a huge fan of barry gibb. i feel like he was done wrong by jimmy fallon. it was a nice moment for me. what i have taken from that is whatever the heck i'm doing, it seems to be working so i should keep trying to explain how our justice department and how our supreme court is deciding the

rules the rest of us have to live under. amy: next time we will look at the supreme court, do we have to have kennan thompson on? >> i hope so. if i become any small ways away for "snl" to cover the supreme court more and bring knowledge to bear about how the court actually operates and what it does in secret, i will take every don king joked they can throw at me if that is the upshot. nermeen: elie mystal, the nation's justice correspondent. thank you for joining us. we will link to all of your pieces. he is the author of "allow me to retort: a black guy's guide to the constitution." coming up, we go to pakistan for the latest in the country's national elections. stay with us. ♪ [music break]

nermeen: "pasoori" by ali sethi and shae gill. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm nermeen shaikh joined by amy goodman. in pakistan, independent candidates leading the country's elections as official results continue to come in. the results so far have come as a surprise to many given observers -- many observers given the extent of support to pti laura list. khan supporters have accused of rigged elections. he was disqualified from running in thursday's election because of criminal convictions he says were politically motivated. he was in his the run-up to the election. in a close second so far, candidates with the pakistan muslim league party of three-time former back

by the military. he returned after four years of self supposed exile abroad to avoid serving prison sentences encryption cases. his convictions were overturned, leaving him free to seek a fourth term in office. coming in third is a pakistan peoples party. for more joined by alia amirali, pakistani political activist and organizer. she's a member of the left-wing awami workers party. normally based in islamabad but joins us today from london, where she's a graduate student at the london school of economics. and we are joined by munizae jahangir, journalist and the host of a political talk show on pakistan's leading news network, where she's been covering the elections. she is also editor-in-chief of the digital media platform voicepk.net. she is co-chair of the human rights commission of pakistan. we welcome you both to democracy now! munizae jahangir, let's begin with you. tell us about the election

results, what you see coming in, the latest news. i'm afraid we seem to have lost munizae jahangir. we will try to get back to her. alia amirali, if you could comment on what you see coming out of pakistan. >> the fact the results are continuing to pour in so slowly and are so delayed is itself an indicator whatever the results actually end of being, they're not particularly credible. i think irrespective of the results, the political crisis that we're seeing and pakistan is going to continue. i think it is worth remembering in pakistan, this is not unusual. elections have never been a straightforward affair where people just come out and make

air will known. it is worth remembering the first general elections in the country in 1970 were not just dismissed by the military establishment, but ended up being the first time in history where a majority actually separated from the country, referring to bangladesh. elections in pakistan have always been more or less controlled affair. i think what is different about these elections and what has been happening successfully in pakistan is an increasingly sort of military control over pakistan's political affairs, becoming untenable. we are seeing this time this very large young and politicized electorate and also increasingly divided electorate. if we look at voting patterns and how

people are approaching and how meaningful elections are in the center versus pakistan's periphery, the political gulf between center and periphery is increasing and these elections are going to be a clear indicator of that. i think finally, quite irrespective of imran khan being the opposition and i think at least the unofficial results that have been coming in over social media ever since yesterday to show the pti has gotten a lot of seats and perhaps the official results will not reflect that as accurately as perhaps the actual sort of results have. but i think it is worth remembering that the pti is basically composed of electable's who have belonged to different parties at different times and have jumped ship,

let's say, from one party to the other in the past were basically local landlords, businessmen, and have been part of the political establishment for a very long time. i think in terms of what pakistan is facing come its economic crisis, its climate crisis, ecological and political crisis in the periphery come irrespective of who comes to power, neither the military leadership nor any of the political parties seem to have a solution to this. nermeen: we seem to have gotten munizae jahangir back on the line. if you could respond to what is happening? you were following the election minute by minute for your own news program. what most struck you as results were coming in? what are the results so far? >> one of the first things that is of concern is the results are supposed to be released this

morning at 10:00 a.m. several hours later, we still do not have the results of this general election. there is no clarity on who is going to be forming the government in the center and -- [indiscernible] the rpt i-backed independent candidates -- pti-backed independent candidates. [indiscernible] it is up in the year, each party has got and whether pti will be allowed to form a party --

[indiscernible] we have not seen the actual results. the problem with pakistan, there was election management system that was dependent on the internet. internet signals are going down. [indiscernible] there was an outcry over shutting down the internet. the government backtracked. when people got up to vote, the internet across pakistan was blocked.

on the second they've elections, 7:00 p.m. in pakistan, we still don't have a proper signal across pakistan. who were not able to get to the police stations. having said that, still a substantial turnout. we saw women come out in substantial numbers to come out and vote. people have voted against a party that seems [indiscernible] we are now getting information that returning officers appointed by election commissioners -- we don't know

where he is. in other cases, we are seeing the form that is supposed to be submitted, the initial forms [indiscernible] we are receiving reports that present officers were confined by the military -- presiding officers were confined by the military. significant manipulation of the results. amy: i went to go back to alia amirali who is in london right now but closely following the

pakistan elections. the local audience who are not closely following politics in pakistan, if you can explain to us how the system is working right now. violence in the lead up to the election, candidates gunned it down, the telecommunications going down. you had pti barred so imran khan's party, imran khan who has been jailed for corruption, running as independent because the party is barred. no i sharif who was imprisoned for a time coming up second. do you agree that all of these independents that seem to be ahead now, they're saying the results are because they are being tampered with. but for the global audience to put the selection in context and where the military stands, the pakistani military stands in the middle of all of this, such a

powerhouse in running pakistan. >> yeah. as i said earlier, i think it is important to remember the history -- i prefer to use the term "civilian rule goes but rather than "democracy." the battle for elections to simply take place and the results to be accepted has been a constant struggle for pakistan since its inception. we have to remember the first general elections took place in 1970. the country was created in 1947. we still spent more than half our political history under direct e rule. as i said earlier, where we began, the 1970 elections, results were not accepted and we lost more than half what was then pakistan as a result.

i think what has happened over time is the military establishment has become more and more insecure, and that insecurity has made greater attempts to manipulate and control not just the election -- i looked for process and its technicalities, but a whole sort of foreplay that happens beforehand analyzes that are made. in pakistan, it is common knowledge for people to assume that governments are made -- it is not that elections -- nermeen: 10 seconds. >> it is not that people's votes don't matter, it is just that the military will certainly manipulate the results. nermeen: alia amirali, thank you for joining us. munizae jahangir, journalist and

host of political show. [captioning made possible by democracy now!] happy early birthday to messiah rhodes!